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| Commando Cruiser C. 1944/56/68- first drawing project http://shipbucket.com./forums/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=1718 |
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| Author: | meeware [ August 8th, 2011, 4:24 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Commando Cruiser C. 1944/56/68- first drawing project |
After many years lurking and enjoying the drawings here I've decided to get going on a project of my own. It's a never built/ au type thing- a hybrid heavy cruiser/ commando assault ship, with a copmplex back story and several generations of refits and redesigns in mind. In fact I have two classes in mind- one a little larger than the Tiger class called Hood/ Barham, and one nearer the Vanguard/ Lion design. There will be two hull sizes- an enlarged Tiger, and something akin to the Vanguard. They will have WWII, 1950s, 1960s and 1970s refits, and there may be a third class for 1977, but I've no real idea what that looks like yet (It probably turns into the Invincible tbh, what with harriers et al. Back story: Capital ship (bar carrier) production is suspended in WWII, the UK floats out three uncompleted BB hulls, each of which are seaworthy, but unarmed and have partial machinery. During WWII two large cruisers are started on, which during design are adapted to each take 2 of the 8 inch twin turrets from earlier York and County class vessels damaged during the war (a counter factual element, but feasible in that many heavy cruisers were damaged by mines and torpedos etc. For the purposes of the backstory, I'll claim that York was salvaged from Crete and returned to Alexandria, but was further damaged in dock for refit, and that a county class struck a mine breaking her back off the Firth of Forth in much the same way that Belfast did). With just two turrets for the main armament mounted forward, the ships had a hi capacity for additional anti aircraft, and the super structure was carefully designed to allow the best fields of fire for a truly daunting AA armament, including QF 4.5 or 5.25 guns (advice appreciated) directed by three American Mark 37 DCT sets (too soon?), bofors and oerlikons. With relatively clear afterends, there was also the opportunity to site a catapult and hangar for several spotting seaplanes, and the more capable US Curtiss SC Seahawk spotters, and a larger than normal complement of seaboats was also possible. In late 1943 the first of these vessels joins the fleet and is soon found to be an ideal raider- with heavy cruiser engines, but the armament and armour of a light cruiser she's swift enough to cover large distances quickly, can fend off all but the most intense air attack, and can land significant raiding groups with moderate but useful NGFS helped by air spotting. Over the course of the Tunisian, sicilian and Italian campaigns the two ships prove their worth in dozens of coastal interdiction raids, with their dedicated marine commando groups doubling up as well drilled damage control parties for those few unfortunate times when attacking aircraft do manage to punch through. The admiralty realises the value such ships could have in the widespread Pacific war and launches a crash program to complete the BB hulls as commando cruisers too, going so far as to install two of the Nelson class 16inch triple turrets on forward mounts of two hulls and completing one in time for trials in the spring of 1945, but the war is over before she can fire a shot. Employed on high speed repatriation runs through 1946 the first two of the class, now called Vanguard and Lion, feature a fully radar directed gunnery armament for surface and AA roles, and the capability to transport a full commando (battalion) and direct a brigade sized amphibious assault. In the post war period, the Vanguard, Hood and Barham remain in service, rotating through Home, Med and Far east flagship duties, and all take leading roles in Korea, but it is soon clear that their gun AA fit is falling behind the times. Hood is the first to be refitted, receiving the first sea slug unit in the fleet, and having the 4.5 inches replaced by 3inch QF mounts with more advanced directors. Above the seaslug loading deckhouse the first purpose built landing pad for helicopters is created, and the surface search radars are improved. The refit is moderately successful, but the impact on the commando capacity of the massive seaslug magazine and the huge amount of top hamper added by associated radar equipment means a change of role is clearly in line, and Hood is now a command rather than commando cruiser (sho looses the "O" factor as wardroom wags would have it). Now largley dedicated to the Nato flagship role in the GIUK gap, her excellent seakeeping makes her a valuable member of the fleet, though the 8 inch guns are a perculiar annachronism that she rarely uses. Rather than refit the Barham, she is mothballed, and instead the focus returns to the bigger sisters, who over the next decade all recieve radical refits, or rebuilds, giving them multi-layered missile based AA defence, the full comando support role, peerless NGFS abilities, and starting with the Lion, and in 1965 the finally completed Belerophon, the capability to support full blown commando helicopter assaults. Belerophon has steam plant based on the latest high pressure designs, a single triple 16 inch gun, forward and aft Seadart launchers, four seacat launchers, 3inch qf aa, and oerlikons. Her flight deck can spot four Westland Wessex helicopters and she has hangar capacity for up to seven of the helicopers, plus four Wasp anti tank helos, and in davits she has four LCVPs. With her reduced armour load she's the fastest longest ranged ship in the fleet, by a significant margin, and more than capable of defending herself against the latest threats. Sadly the Vanguard isn't capable of being refitted to her standard but by 1970 Belerophon and Lion are the paragon of the Naval Fire Brigade, and independantly and together have snuffed out dozens of hot spots around the world, as well as taking turn about on the GIUK station where reconfigured for ASW their helicopter squadrons hold the line. Hood is decommisioned in 1970, her design being fully maxed out and her machinery worked long and hard, but as she pays off Barham returns, with an enhanced fit of seadart, the very first seawolf, and an airwing of seakings allowing her once again to fulfil the role of supporting her bigger sisters. The name lives on though, and as the plans for the decommisioning of Lion, Belerophon and Barham are fixed, the design of a new class of commando cruisers, the new Hood class, is finalised, the first to be launched at Swan Hunter in June of 1977 |
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| Author: | SINJOORTJE [ August 10th, 2011, 12:25 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Commando Cruiser C. 1944/56/68- fist drawing project |
Love the idea! Sounds sort of like my battlecarrier concept just more emphasis on command and without using STOVL planes |
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| Author: | Rodondo [ August 10th, 2011, 12:46 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Commando Cruiser C. 1944/56/68- fist drawing project |
Triple posting, @meeware, can't wait to see the initial designs |
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| Author: | SINJOORTJE [ August 10th, 2011, 12:53 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Commando Cruiser C. 1944/56/68- fist drawing project |
Yeah I'm still gettn used to how to post |
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| Author: | meeware [ August 10th, 2011, 4:58 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Commando Cruiser C. 1944/56/68- fist drawing project |
Actually I am looking for some tips- firstly, are there any good examples of fire directors of the type I'm after for AA stuff? Secondly- is the oerlikon in the ciws sheet ok to sprinkle liberally on a late WWII ship?, and what's a good 'mmid calibre' AA gun for the period? Got my outline done now- well a few tweaks to do but nearly there. Should have it up by the end of the week. It's the smaller class, the Hood, c. 1944 Med deployment. |
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| Author: | HMS Sophia [ August 10th, 2011, 5:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Commando Cruiser C. 1944/56/68- fist drawing project |
I'm pretty sure the HACS are all AA directors. Try them? 3inch high angle for the mid calibre gun? or the 40mm Mk5? I think you're better off using this sheet for guns viewtopic.php?f=16&t=65 |
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| Author: | meeware [ August 11th, 2011, 8:45 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Commando Cruiser C. 1944/56/68- fist drawing project |
That's a fantastic resource, thanks very much indeed. I hadn't realised so many great sheets were here in the forum and not in the photobucket albums. Are there any others I should take a look at do you think for seaboats for example and other 'standard' fittings? I shall go hunting myself but top tips would be much appreciated. Also, I am doing my first hull in haze grey, but I'd like to try camo at some point for at least the Hood. Are there any guides for how to do RN camo (bearing in mind I havea little artistic license to play with on this purely fictional vessel). |
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| Author: | Novice [ August 11th, 2011, 8:40 pm ] | |
| Post subject: | Re: Commando Cruiser C. 1944/56/68- fist drawing project | |
Also, I am doing my first hull in haze grey, but I'd like to try camo at some point for at least the Hood. Are there any guides for how to do RN camo (bearing in mind I havea little artistic license to play with on this purely fictional vessel).
See Portsmouth Bill excellent HMAS Perth, or his HMS Arethusa or mine HMS Eagle or Portsmouth Bill's HMS Belfast for RN camo patterns and colors |
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| Author: | meeware [ August 12th, 2011, 3:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Commando Cruiser C. 1944/56/68- first drawing project |
Here attached is my first pass at the Hood light commando cruiser circa early 1944. Huge thanks to everyone who has pointed me at the parts sheets- I found them very helpful. I must confess to some confusion over where to find the best sheets- shipbucket, photobucket or the forums, but I think I've got there in the end. As the design currently stands she mounts two twin 8inchers forward, ten 4.5 inch twins in MkIIBD mounts, and has 5 fire control stations for them. The rear mounts for the 4.5s are (working forward from the stern( a single centre line mount, apair on the deck edges, and three abreast. I've popped on six of the hazemyer 40mm mounts but not really got the knack of spotting 20mm around. The AA fit is very heavy, and probably silly. Recommendations appreciated. I stuck with a catapult (Actually lifted from the Alaska class as depicted by Colosseum) with a recoloured Seahawk. The huge US catapult makes it hard to set up good aircraft and boat handling arrangements, and in spite of my initial plan I am beginning to think this is a waste of space- by 1943 the RN was forgoing spotter planes and relying more on RDF and accompanying carriers. In terms of drawing work i'd appreciate tips on how to add weapons above complex structures- this is where Paint falls down badly. Gimp is probably better, but cropping and use of layers have always confounded me. I plan to follow up with more detail and some midships rejigging, but any and all brickbats and feedback are very very welcome- process drawing, and tech all need feedback. |
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| Author: | meeware [ August 24th, 2011, 4:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Commando Cruiser C. 1944/56/68- first drawing project |
Hi, clearly my last effort stunned you with it's magnificence, and warranted no further feedback, so I fear this next effort may yet cause catalepsy among some. None the less, I shall persevere. Below you'll find a much refined design, with a consistent freeboard, rebalanced AA fit, a full hull and many many credits to elements lifted from designers of relavant ships. Feedback would be nice if you can.... for instance tips on how to apply railings etc. |
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